


Freudian Sides, A Very Long Meta Theory

by MagpieMorality



Category: Sanders Sides (Web Series)
Genre: Gen, Meta, Personality Theory, Psychology, Sanders Sides Headcanons, Sanders Sides Theories, This is pure theorising!
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2020-07-11
Updated: 2020-07-11
Packaged: 2021-03-05 00:34:32
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 1
Words: 3,243
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/25205551
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/MagpieMorality/pseuds/MagpieMorality
Summary: This is a rewrite of a rambling tumblr post with my imagining of fitting the Sides into the Freudian personality theory. I have never studied psychology but enjoyed researching this a bit! It’s edited and added-to to be more readable and understandable, and mainly to collect all of my own thoughts in one place for me to come back to later. If you’re interested then read on, warning that it’s a long one, full of rambling opinions from this one thinker here, but hopefully some of it is interesting. If you agree with me let me know, if you disagree with me also let me know, but I should point out that this is just one theory I’ve applied to the series and characters and there are probably loads out there that fit!Let’s get to it~
Comments: 3
Kudos: 8





	Freudian Sides, A Very Long Meta Theory

**Author's Note:**

> Again, if it wasn't clear, this is not a fic! This is a write up of my own personal reading of Sanders Sides using the Freudian Personality Theory of the id, ego and superego aspects of the psyche. It's long and rambling but hopefully a little interesting to someone out there. I needed to get my thoughts down and out of my system and figured that 3,3k of psych theorising might as well go on AO3 as well as tumblr where it'll be easier to read!!

**The Freudian Personality Theory**

_[Summarised from this article](https://www.simplypsychology.org/psyche.html) _

The theory that Freud presented is that the psyche/personality can be separated into three distinct parts; the ID, the EGO and the SUPEREGO. These are not physical parts but aspects of the psyche that influence the personality of a person. 

The id is the most basic instincts, deep in the subconscious, things like eating, seeking pleasure (in the sense of good feelings for the person), and survival instinct; things that won’t change as you age because they are so intrinsic (apart from the development of the reproduction instinct in those it presents itself in). The superego is the conscience and the ‘ideal self’, your most socially affected part that dictates morality and outward self you want to project into the world. It’s the bit that makes you choose to do stuff for others and follow laws and social rules, and gives you the desire to be better and improve, as well as being a source of guilt or pride if you succeed or fail at those things. The ego balances the two, trying to find the best outcome by appeasing the id while following the code of the superego. It uses rational thinking and grounds decisions in reality while still working to seek a positive overall outcome for the person. It doesn’t have the sense of right or wrong that the superego has, and failing to control the id can result in feelings such as guilt or anxiety, which it may try to unconsciously defend the psyche against as a coping mechanism. It is concerned primarily with helping the personality feel good in a socially acceptable way. 

**Sides as aspects of the Personality Theory**

So I found that this theory fit rather well with the sides, better than the dark sides/light sides, left brain/right brain, each side has an opposite, disorders vs productive aspects, conscious vs unconscious aspects, all theories which are interesting but never quite rang true for me. The way the theory presents the aspects as independent workers that influence the personality of the person lines up very well against the personified Sides, affecting Character Thomas as he utilises them. 

In that regard I see the sides we see during the series more as entities brought to life and assigned personifications semi-consciously by Character Thomas rather than the aspects of the psyche brought to life, or the sides of his personality brought to life, because I believe that a) he has changed them prior to and during the series by interacting with them consciously and semi or subconsciously assigning them personifications, and b) they all perform multiple roles and duties beyond what their named ‘role’ in the series is, so just sticking to that doesn’t fit, or would require a whole host of other characters that we don’t know about to exist, which I personally don’t see working well within the series (Orange notwithstanding; that’s a discussion for another time!). 

In order to reconcile those things my thoughts were to place each side within the Freudian theory and then explain why they might not entirely fit using points a and b as supporting evidence. 

Firstly, **Virgil and Remus would be the id** , the instincts and base functions, easily able to disrupt and overwhelm the main psyche if left unchecked. Too much attention paid to these can result in feelings of guilt or anxiety, influenced by the Superego, and overall I think the id is a mess of conflict of instincts as well, as survival wars with curiosity and impulse. So, Remus is pure impulse and represents several base instincts such as sexual and morbid. 

The **ego is of course Logan and Janus** , with their logic and rational thinking and defense of Character Thomas over everything else, which adhering to social values and concepts. They are very much the self control sides and do exactly that, working together not only to keep Virgil and Remus satisfied and not overwhelming, but to do the same for the superego sides. They don’t bother themselves with wrong or right, but prioritise Character Thomas’ well-being, sometimes over the superego as well, keeping that in check just as easily as they keep the id in check. Logan is a notable foil for Remus and often Virgil, and Janus has proven his own desire to act in this way. Perhaps while the superego was essentially in charge this is why the id sides became disordered; because Janus was only able to do half of his role and overcompensated by forcing the id down entirely rather than offering compromise along with Logan and keeping the superego in check at the same time. The feelings of guilt that catalysed that must have been fairly great, which matches up well with Character Thomas’ religious upbringing and how that would have interacted with puberty and his growing sense of self.

That leaves **Roman and Patton as the superego** , which just fits!! Patton is the conscience and morality side but in many ways so is Roman. He also firmly believes in the code of right and wrong, perhaps recently shown to be influenced by Patton or perhaps he simply feels it more strongly than Patton. We certainly know him to be a product of that way of thinking, with the half of creativity concept. And as Character Thomas’ career aspirations it is interesting to look at him because had there been another career of choice he would perhaps have been entirely different, or if you prefer to look at it the other way; Character Thomas may have chosen to pursue a career in performance because his superego and ideal self is incredibly theatrical and performance orientated. They also both strive to be the best people they can be, more so than any other sides holding themselves to lofty standards and their own account in the model of ‘best’ that society has taught them! The religious influence can’t be downplayed here. And they do influence Thomas's negativity over first Virgil- with Roman’s constant animosity towards the side before the acceptance- and then Remus- from Roman and Patton as well, while Logan the ego is more concerned with neutralising the threat Remus poses instead of fearing him. It could be said that Patton even influences Virgil's reaction to Remus, turning the id on itself by guilting survival instinct into attacking the other instincts as dangerous. Finally, if left unchecked themselves by the ego they also get out of hand and become neurotic and overwhelm the psyche too. Patton caused the distinction between light and dark and is responsible for many feelings of guilt and poor conscience for Character Thomas, while Roman often feels insecure and unsuccessful because his ideal self is too out of reach for reality. They need the ego to stay in touch with reality and to function best for Character Thomas, in cohesion with the other sides. 

**How Character Thomas muddled things up**

To me, this feels right for how the sides were all formed, with the added caveat that I think the choices Character Thomas made of assigning them personality traits has skewed the picture somewhat. For example as mentioned above; I don't think Remus was initially ‘Creativity’ at all, but that the impulsive thoughts he brought to the table were labelled that way because of the superego's guilt and influence not being held in check by the ego during formative years for the psyche. 

Now the main problem in the Sanders Sides canon is that the sides, well, _exist_. The fact that Character Thomas sees them consciously and has subconsciously personified them has influenced and changed facets of each one in a very interesting way, character-wise. The superego’s control over everything has inspired Character Thomas to demonise certain aspects that would otherwise have been perfectly natural and safe, albeit in controlled doses. Instead we have the entire id forced subconscious and then breaking out to bring Virgil to the conscious fore; But let’s look at this more on a character by character basis (because I apparently need to write it this way!).

**Remus** , who would have just been base instincts but also due to suppression has become disordered as intrusive thoughts, but thanks to Character Thomas’ conscious personification of Roman, was subconsciously remodeled as ‘dark creativity’, even though the two function in completely different ways in the show, and in this theory. Roman’s creativity, aka the imagination, is a conscious choice that Character Thomas chooses to use, and he actively chooses not to think ‘dark’ thoughts in his imagination. Remus is more impulsive and base and subconscious, uncontrolled and not so much creativity as original thought coming from those instincts and, mainly (I’ll keep on at this thread forever I swear) impulse. Interestingly in the Vines, if they exist within the same universe, then Remus’ impulses have in fact been regularly satisfied through (as mentioned many times before) jumping out of a car, setting things on fire, all the butt selfies, etc. His Intrusive Thoughts title could therefore stem from mainly the repression of his aspect of the psyche; by forcing the baser instincts down on the principle of them being ‘wrong in the eyes of society’ the superego and Character Thomas unwittingly created a sort of malformation where impulse becomes more negative and unwelcome because there is no outlet, like an infected wound, trying to lash out and instead of being cowed by the moral conscience only forming harder around that idea (that society would view them as bad) in order to do the lashing out. Think of it as a mental association of base instincts and those thoughts and impulses with ‘don’t think this’ and ‘bad for you and for society’. The pink elephant thought experiment is incredibly relevant here. The more repressed instincts are, the more they wildly act out and become disordered. 

**Virgil** as the more survival instinct side of the id had a similar experience; through some means, probably overinfluence of the superego he became disordered as well, his survival instinct shifting from physical danger to more often social danger, and his expression as Anxiety was a malformed way of working his role for Character Thomas and responding to the control and repression the superego exerted over him. The intrusive thoughts and anxiety disorders that Character Thomas experiences I would theorise came from the id trying to balance an overzealous superego- and the impact of the superego imposing societal concerns on an aspect of the psyche that should never deal with the outside world- with the ego overwhelmed by the superego as well. It’s intriguing that when he was accepted/became a ‘light side’ his name was not changed from Anxiety to something more reflective of his job, however I suppose there’s a case to be made that once an aspect has become disordered, leading to mental health issues, it’s probably incredibly hard for it to turn back and ameliorating the symptoms is often the best solution. Accepting Anxiety in this case was the best thing they could have done, and accepting Intrusive Thoughts will hopefully come along soon as well. 

**Logan** is fairly simply personified and distinguished and luckily mostly saved from the complications of personification, but not of the peronification of the others. They all have to function to keep themselves in check now as conscious beings, removing some of the responsibility from the ego as Character Thomas and the sides have started to think rationally for themselves. This has resulted somewhat in Logan becoming less relevant and useful and not being listened to as much, which we have seen in the show recently. He's still needed of course but his function has lessened with the development of the sides as personalities, and is perhaps going to be the next side to have to come back into balance as the rest of the psyche learn they need his guidance as well as their own (and I think it would be interesting to see Janus have to fill his shoes and struggle to do all the work, requiring him to come back full force). 

**Janus** has suffered from the personification in much the same way Remus has; through demonisations. But I think mainly this resulted in Janus being unable to do his own role as a balancer of both sides because he was overwhelmed by the guilt of giving in to instinct and therefore put even more effort into forcing down the id, mainly Remus, and abandoned his ‘put yourself first’ role for Character Thomas, which Logan struggled to fill in a way Character Thomas can relate to. Seeing them work together and playing to their strengths would be wonderful, and the latest video demonstrated some of that ability to tag in, although Logan was a little sidelined by the situation.

The superego is where things get really messy, and it’s emblematic of the power and preference Character Thomas has given the superego in the past that they’ve developed so much and have so much to them. But just as their opinions and concepts haven’t really developed past his childhood developmental stage, their personifications haven’t either. Instead they’re quite a mishmash of traits Character Thomas most valued in his authority figures and his ideal self at that same age, not quite fully developed or cohesive characters. 

**Roman** is first up. Ah, Roman. We know that he represents, to Character Thomas, his creativity, passion, romance and femininity. That’s a _lot_ of things for one side to cover, even in the Sanders Sides universe way of explaining things where most sides have just one ‘job’. Add them together though and you can easily end up with the superego, or at least a part of it. Roman is, in my eyes, inarguably the aspect of ideal self. He is the most reflective of the outward personality of Character Thomas, and fulfills the role of his career driver and general motivation in life. He, perhaps in conjunction with Patton although in some respects _more_ than Patton, drives the feelings of success and failure and the pride or guilt at attaining or not attaining the standards the superego as a whole set for Character Thomas to reach. He’s the role model, the person Character Thomas most wants to be (albeit exaggerated), and most idealises and idolises from the media he consumed as a child. Again; undeveloped past that age. He also deals quite literally in the control of the id’s impulses; he is a Disney prince ready to fight the Bad GuyTM. Patton may be the driver of that decision but Roman will carry it out no problem. In fact, the entire Accepting Anxiety arc was fascinating for showing how the ego and psyche as a whole needed to correct the _superego’s_ behaviour primarily in order to lessen the negative effects of the _id_ , rather than the way they’d gone about things before of just fighting against the id directly and suffering the backlash. It’s why the most recent episodes with Patton and Janus were also so interesting; a well-functioning ego can exert enough control to tame the superego and thereby control the id as well (but that second part I think we have yet to see, with the purging of the ‘dark sides’ narrative from Roman to come, no doubt). 

And **Patton** , poor Patton. Morality AND childishness AND the dad side AND The Heart? Morality and being the dad side fit the superego aspect perfectly as moral authority figure types and duties, and I’ll admit right now that this theory renders most of my characterisation of him as a chaotic good fairly redundant in favour of the authority figure lawful good/neutral (but fanon is fanon and canon is canon and we only draw from the latter for the former’s pleasure right?). The Heart also makes sense. I’ve seen it characterised as the emotional side, feeling all emotions, which was a train I was fully on until recently! I think his title of The Heart makes more sense in line with the superego’s outward looking _conscience_ ; he is the primary aspect responsible for gifting the psyche with that magical pride, or chastising it with the ever-feared guilt. He feels good, or bad, there’s not a lot of nuance there, and indeed in the series he rarely displays emotions other than those two, and those emotions affect the other sides often more than him himself. Nostalgia might be one other emotion you could cite, but that’s not unique to him and is more a facet of Character Thomas’ being a person. I suppose it could be rationalised as something the superego wants to think about or aspire to because it inspires the psyche to be better, or because it was a time when the psyche was better, pushing the ideal self onwards while simultaneously backwards to retrieve and recreate those wonderful moments. There weren’t really many bad memories in the nostalgia episode that I can remember, certainly. And the fact that the superego controls the nostalgia is interesting as well. But the childishness... well it’s far more of an id thing to be childish. In fact it really suits the fact that the id develops at birth and then does not change with age! It’s a thing that I’ve noticed changes a lot in characterisations of Patton everywhere, even somewhat within the series itself as it doesn’t quite mesh with the rest of his character apart from being a nice sort of gimmick or front. It doesn’t quite feel genuine, although the naivete of his being unable to understand many jokes or adult concepts fits absolutely spot on with my own theory that Character Thomas’ superego stopped developing after forming when he was young. Childhood is also when the religious influence would have started and impressed a huge amount of morality on Character Thomas right when the superego was formed and along with Roman’s very black & white/disneyesque thinking and personification this supports my theory, only further supported by the fact that the main development in the series recently has been when the childishness or childish concepts have been left behind more for responsibility and culpability and shades of grey thinking. It all feels a lot like a late bloom into adulthood. Patton has started to accept his role in the psyche and learn how to control it; primarily by not trying to control everything else and leaving that to the professionals of the ego. His part in the latest video was the least childish his characterisation has been, and I doubt it’s a coincidence that it felt more genuine than he has done previously. Charater Thomas’ aspects are finally growing up!

So in conclusion; by making each side more conscious of their role CT has both helped and hindered them, taking them from their original roles in the psyche and warping them a bit, but now allowing them to return to a stable, balanced and organised structure, which is also their original and healthiest one, conforming to the Freudian Personality Theory.

That was a really long way of explaining why I think this theory really lines up against the Sanders Sides characters as a great framework for their existence and functions. This will absolutely be informing my own interpretations of them in canon-setting fic going forwards, and I’m intrigued to see what anyone else thinks! 

And if you made it all the way through; well done, go have a cookie or two on me, you’ve earned it!!!


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